The Buck Stops Here

Published on April 9, 2005 By NJforever In Politics

A common opposition tactic against anybody is to bring out the "that's not what the people want!" argument. Apparently, only what is popular can possibly be right. That is complete and utter nonsense. An important part of leadership is doing what you believe is right, no matter what others think . It's important to have strong convictions and believe in them. A great example of how important this is is Harry S Truman.

Truman, was, of course, 33rd president of the United States. He had a sign on his desk, which read "The buck stops here." And it certainly did. Truman is notorious for always standing up for what he believed in, no matter what popular opinion was. In fact, it nearly cost him the election (I never saw it, but the victorious Truman holding a paper with the headline "Dewey defeats Truman" is memorable). But he didn't care. And you know what? It turns out Truman really helped the nation. He's up there in presidential rankings (and I know my presidential rankings. Just ask Dr. Guy). I greatly respect and admire Truman for his strong convictions.

Obviously, I tend to stick by my convictions. I believe it is a quality every leader should have. Also, I never care for those "that's not what the people want!" arguments. You know what? Too bad. Prove to me that it isn't working, not that it isn't popular, and I'll happily agree with you. But don't start throwing polls and whatnot at me (don't even get me started on polls; I got a Roosevelt-Landon story there). I guess this makes me a Truman Democrat. Are you a Truman (insert party here)?

Comments (Page 2)

NJforever

on Apr 10, 2005

FactsIn 2001 the national debt was 5.7 Trillion. Today it is 7.7 Trillion. The trade deficit in 2001 was about 400 billion, in 2004 it was over 620 billionUnemployment rate in 2001 was 3.9% it is now 5.2%In 2000 we had a 125 Billion annual surplus under the Unified Budget (adding ss and medicare surpluses). Today we are at 425 Billion annual deficit under the Unified Budget.Underemployment( workers without living wage jobs) rate was 6.9% in 2001 and is now 9.3%Five facts. No BS just facts. All worse since Bush became President!

Can you provide a credible link or something of the sort that backs your statements up?

drmiler

on Apr 10, 2005

njforever

Proof

By placing the next generation into debt so we can give people that need nothing more money.

By not protecting the borders on this country so terrorists can walk in

By not insuring the tarde policies enable American companies and workers to get a fair shake.

By starting a war with a country that did not pose any danger to the U S

By trying to solve the funding shortfall in Social Secuuity by taking Trillions more from the system for individual accounts.

This is NOT proof. These are allegations.

COL Gene

on Apr 11, 2005

Sorry njforever and drmiler they are facts.

The labor data came from BLS ( Sharon Cohany and Scott Berridge_ www.bls.gov/

www.bls.gov/cvps/cpswp202.pdf www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cpsatab12.htm

The National debt and annual debt came from Dept of the Trerasury and from the Bureau of public debt. For example the National debt can be found on www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpdodt.htm.

You can also obtain the data by using Google which will priovide numerous sites. This data is 100% correct. It clearly shows that under the Bush policies the the employment is worse, the annual deficit has gotten worse every year and the cumulative National debt increased every year under Bush. If you go to the OMB website and look at the Bush projection you will find President tells us that by 2008 the National debt will stand at $9.949 Trillion and by 2010 it will be $11.138 Trillion. That is if he is sccessful by cutting the annual deficit in half which most experts feel will not happen given his policy to make the tax cuts permanent and to divert trillions more from Social Security into his individual accounts. No one can believe that the Bush policies are working. The proof is there if you choose to look at it!

National debt ( source Bureau of Public Debt)

2002 5.674 Trillion
2002 6.228
2004 7.379
Feb 2005 7.619

drmiler

on Apr 11, 2005

the employment is worse,

Wrongo! Try going to the Labor board website. They say different.

That is if he is sccessful by cutting the annual deficit in half which most experts feel will not happen given his policy to make the tax cuts permanent

This is their opinion. That does NOT make this a fact. Notice, they say they feel not that they "know" that this will happen.

COL Gene

on Apr 11, 2005

Drmiler

Are you brain dead? I have given you the rates for unemployment and underemployment in 2000 compared with today. The rates today are higher in both cases then in 2000. Higher is worse.

The same thing is true with the annual deficit and the national debt. They are both much higher in 2005 then in 2000.

YOU ARE DEAD WRONG!

drmiler

on Apr 11, 2005

YOUR the ones that's wrong. You gave me what *you* wanted me to hear as stats. But when I tell you that your wrong and give you the info required to back-up what I say. *You* don't want to hear it. Did you even "bother" to go the site mentioned? Let's try again shall we?
Link

-----

on Apr 11, 2005

Reply #14 By: Citizen Dr. Guy - 4/10/2005 6:04:05 PM
It would be nice if we got a stronger candidate in 2008. I've already said on another thread that I'm considering supporting the Libertarians if I cannot stomach the Democratic candidate.

I will join you if the democrats shirk their duty once again.

--Always liked FDR,Always thought he joined the wrong party...

Reply #18 By: COL Gene - 4/11/2005 7:41:27 AM
Sorry njforever and drmiler they are facts.

The labor data came from BLS ( Sharon Cohany and Scott Berridge_ www.bls.gov/

www.bls.gov/cvps/cpswp202.pdf www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cpsatab12.htm

The National debt and annual debt came from Dept of the Trerasury and from the Bureau of public debt. For example the National debt can be found on www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpdodt.htm.

You can also obtain the data by using Google which will priovide numerous sites. This data is 100% correct. It clearly shows that under the Bush policies the the employment is worse, the annual deficit has gotten worse every year and the cumulative National debt increased every year under Bush. If you go to the OMB website and look at the Bush projection you will find President tells us that by 2008 the National debt will stand at $9.949 Trillion and by 2010 it will be $11.138 Trillion. That is if he is sccessful by cutting the annual deficit in half which most experts feel will not happen given his policy to make the tax cuts permanent and to divert trillions more from Social Security into his individual accounts. No one can believe that the Bush policies are working. The proof is there if you choose to look at it!

National debt ( source Bureau of Public Debt)

2002 5.674 Trillion
2002 6.228
2004 7.379
Feb 2005 7.619

Reply #19 By: Citizen drmiler - 4/11/2005 8:04:52 AM
the employment is worse,

Wrongo! Try going to the Labor board website. They say different.

That is if he is sccessful by cutting the annual deficit in half which most experts feel will not happen given his policy to make the tax cuts permanent

This is their opinion. That does NOT make this a fact. Notice, they say they feel not that they "know" that this will happen.

Reply #20 By: COL Gene - 4/11/2005 8:10:47 AM
Drmiler

Are you brain dead? I have given you the rates for unemployment and underemployment in 2000 compared with today. The rates today are higher in both cases then in 2000. Higher is worse.

The same thing is true with the annual deficit and the national debt. They are both much higher in 2005 then in 2000.

YOU ARE DEAD WRONG!

Reply #21 By: Citizen drmiler - 4/11/2005 10:53:06 AM
Drmiler

Are you brain dead? I have given you the rates for unemployment and underemployment in 2000 compared with today. The rates today are higher in both cases then in 2000. Higher is worse.

The same thing is true with the annual deficit and the national debt. They are both much higher in 2005 then in 2000.

YOU ARE DEAD WRONG!

YOUR the ones that's wrong. You gave me what *you* wanted me to hear as stats. But when I tell you that your wrong and give you the info required to back-up what I say. *You* don't want to hear it. Did you even "bother" to go the site mentioned? Let's try again shall we?

--How about we just say they're both wrong and get this argument over with, obviousley NO one is going to win it...you can't really tell the facts from fiction on the internet...people could just as easily state opinions as facts [I am NOT pointing any fingers at anyone, so no comments needed against me]

NJforever

on Apr 11, 2005

Well said. The internet, in the end, isn't really a very credible place; I think we should just leave it here as well.

COL Gene

on Apr 11, 2005

This is the unemployment data Feom BLS

It shows Dec 2000 3.7% and march 2005 5.4

Change Output Options: From:
To:

include graphs NEW!

Data extracted on: April 11, 2005 (3:38:47 PM)
Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey

Series Id: LNU04000000
Not Seasonally Adjusted
Series title: (Unadj) Unemployment Rate
Labor force status: Unemployment rate
Type of data: Percent
Age: 16 years and over
Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
1995 6.2 5.9 5.7 5.6 5.5 5.8 5.9 5.6 5.4 5.2 5.3 5.2 5.6
1996 6.3 6.0 5.8 5.4 5.4 5.5 5.6 5.1 5.0 4.9 5.0 5.0 5.4
1997 5.9 5.7 5.5 4.8 4.7 5.2 5.0 4.8 4.7 4.4 4.3 4.4 4.9
1998 5.2 5.0 5.0 4.1 4.2 4.7 4.7 4.5 4.4 4.2 4.1 4.0 4.5
1999 4.8 4.7 4.4 4.1 4.0 4.5 4.5 4.2 4.1 3.8 3.8 3.7 4.2
2000 4.5 4.4 4.3 3.7 3.8 4.1 4.2 4.1 3.8 3.6 3.7 3.7 4.0
2001 4.7 4.6 4.5 4.2 4.1 4.7 4.7 4.9 4.7 5.0 5.3 5.4 4.7
2002 6.3 6.1 6.1 5.7 5.5 6.0 5.9 5.7 5.4 5.3 5.6 5.7 5.8
2003 6.5 6.4 6.2 5.8 5.8 6.5 6.3 6.0 5.8 5.6 5.6 5.4 6.0
2004 6.3 6.0 6.0 5.4 5.3 5.8 5.7 5.4 5.1 5.1 5.2 5.1 5.5
2005 5.7 5.8 5.4

COL Gene

on Apr 11, 2005

This is the change in the National Debt. The data I included above is correct per the Treasury and Bureau of labor.problem with you guys is you don't want accept the truth you try and come up with reasons why the data he is invalid or some other lame excuse. The reality is that in the last four years we have not developed enough jobs and the unemployment and underemployment rate is much higher than it was when Bush took office. When Bush took office there was a annual surplus which is now turned into a huge deficit. And finally we added about $2 trillion to the cumulative national debt since Bush took office. Every one of these is a negative for our country, our economy and for our children. The policies we are following will continue this downward spiral until the policies are changed.

The Debt To the Penny
Current Amount

04/08/2005 $7,789,330,877,191.02

Current
Month

04/07/2005 $7,788,009,463,759.88
04/06/2005 $7,782,421,898,856.14
04/05/2005 $7,782,816,546,352.29
04/04/2005 $7,780,782,448,066.81
04/01/2005 $7,783,719,222,961.24

Prior
Months

03/31/2005 $7,776,939,047,670.14
02/28/2005 $7,713,137,673,664.71
01/31/2005 $7,627,742,597,775.41
12/31/2004 $7,596,165,867,424.14
11/30/2004 $7,525,209,508,979.45
10/29/2004 $7,429,677,448,545.04

Prior Fiscal
Years

09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32
09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16
09/28/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06
09/29/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00

-----

on Apr 11, 2005

Well said. The internet, in the end, isn't really a very credible place; I think we should just leave it here as well.

--Well, lets not get too hastey now, the internet is good for many other things...

COL Gene

on Apr 11, 2005

Yes there is a lot of info on the internet. The Bushies will not like some of it!

drmiler

on Apr 11, 2005

Yes there is a lot of info on the internet. The Bushies will not like some of it!

And others won't care for the left-overs. I also see that you are *still* ignoring reply #21.

COL Gene

on Apr 11, 2005

Reply 21 is wrong. I have copied the data directly from the Federal Government web sites above. Tell me the U S Treasury and BLS is wrong. I did not extract this data I used the "COPY function"

drmiler

on Apr 11, 2005

ply 21 is wrong. I have copied the data directly from the Federal Government web sites above. Tell me the U S Treasury and BLS is wrong. I did not extract this data I used the "COPY function"

Oh "really"? Just an FYI... the posted link I put in was from the U.S. Department of Labor. So now they don't know what they're talking about is that it? As usual if the info doesn't agree with you either say it's BS or ignore it entirely!

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