I would just like to say that I hate this. I hate every square inch of it. But a friend convinced me to let you decide how it is. So, I hate it, but here it is.

Who is that friend? No matter, I don't think I am timid. It is difficult to doubt my rationality and clear logic, though. "The price of rationality is eternal timidity" does apply to the silent majority in many cases.

Because, like I have said, the price of rationality is eternal timidity.

I disagree.  If you were to be correct, then the radical right would control the Republicans instead of being used by them.  You dont have to get rabid.  You have to distance yourself from them, and show others that while they hold some similar views or goals, they are not in control and do not call the dance steps.

It is easy to throw up your hands and wash them of the situation.  But that does not solve the problem.  Yuo agenda is being hijacked and if you do nothing, then nothing will get done.

I disagree. If you were to be correct, then the radical right would control the Republicans instead of being used by them. You dont have to get rabid. You have to distance yourself from them, and show others that while they hold some similar views or goals, they are not in control and do not call the dance steps.

I apply this maxim only to those who have kept quiet for a while. Distancing, I'm all for, my point is attacking them constantly can easily lead to using what you once despised.

It is easy to throw up your hands and wash them of the situation. But that does not solve the problem. Yuo agenda is being hijacked and if you do nothing, then nothing will get done.

Again, that is not what I am saying. We need to put up a fight every once in a while, and we must also let it be known they don't speak for us. But we can't doggedly go after them. Sometimes it is just best to ignore.

Your agenda is being highjacked...come...move closer to this position...

It's like hypnosis. We didn't move furthur left, they just moved what they called "center" over to the right.

It's a rigged game at this point.

Again, that is not what I am saying. We need to put up a fight every once in a while, and we must also let it be known they don't speak for us. But we can't doggedly go after them. Sometimes it is just best to ignore.

You cannot fight a war half way.  You must win, and then do a holding action.  If you just 'pick your fights' then you have not won.  Once you gain control, then you can pick your fights.

It's like hypnosis. We didn't move furthur left, they just moved what they called "center" over to the right.

You see NJ, this is what I am talking about.  Grima tries to turn the argument around and make it so that any fight against them is a fight for the right.  But when the platforms and candidates are such carictures and so out of step even with members of the democrat party, they have to lie and spread lies in order to cower those that do not totally agree with them.

They care not for anything but their extreme agenda, and if someone of a rational mind questions them, they immediately turn it into a 'right corrupting left' argument.  Falwell was very good at that, and almost hijacked the party.  It was just the actions of strong men that prevented it and brought them back to a more moderating side.  yet the Grimas tell you constantly that he has control and has hijacked it.  yet do we see his agenda enacted?

No because the Grimas know taht once their veil is removed, they will lose the party to the rational part.  SO they have to keep up the veil.  It is all or nothing for them.

But the 2/3 of America that dont listen to the Grimas see that you are under their spell, and they are more frightened by that than the thought of Jerry Falwell giving a sermon that most wont listen to anyway.

You cannot fight a war half way. You must win, and then do a holding action. If you just 'pick your fights' then you have not won. Once you gain control, then you can pick your fights.

The problem there is an all-out war would cause my hypothesis to come to pass. I do have a solution, though, that would give a somewhat 'simulated' all-out war while preventing my hypothesis.

Okay, say there are 2 outspoken radicals and rational liberals 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 around. So, Liberals 1, 2, and 3 attack radical 1, but not radical 2. Also, liberals 4, 5, and 6 attack radical 2 but not radical 1. It would require a mass cooperative effort, but if it did happen, I think it would be the most viable solution.

The fearful are almost always the MOST irrational. The rational can delve difficult situations, see the dangers, and find their safety within them.

Ignorance breeds fear. I don't find much in your point.

"It's like hypnosis. We didn't move furthur left, they just moved what they called "center" over to the right. "

And yet, Liberals looking back on history are the first to brag about "how far we have come" in the last century. Who is activly trying moving the center? Can you not expect resistance when people are trying to shove the center further and further left?

How many times have I had discussions with Liberals that were just SHOCKED that I had a particular opinion? Then, they generally refuse to believe that most everyone I know shares that opinion. I think that the Liberal assumption is that we have "come this far", when in reality they are trying to drag a lot of people who don't want to go "that far".

Rather pointless, I would think, to assume that if you're a liberal thinker, you must therefore be irrational, because only if you move to some perceived "center" and be timid, can you be perceived by those here at ju as being somewhat reasonable. I think the extreme agenda of the right, to which most here at ju ascribe to, is extremist and unreasonable. Completely.

I agree with Myrrander, yet again. The right have hijacked the center and moved it right. When they say they want the left to move center, they're really telling us to move right of center. I refuse. And, it's not because I'm irrational. It's because I have very deeply held convictions that dictate that I can never, ever move to the right. Ever. I guess that makes me not very timid. I refuse to be timid about my liberal leanings.

Gee NJ, what were you saying?..........

#10 by dabe

Dabe, I do not want the Democrats to move onto the center, or to the right of it. I want us to move TOWARDS it. I myself am not a centrist, but a moderate liberal. By all means, I'm still a liberal. Also, I'm not calling every liberal irrational. I'm calling extremist (used in this context to mean someone who maliciously attacks the opposition) liberals irrational. Everything I said once and may yet apply to the right.

"As always, there is clamor about JU for the rational liberals to come out and denounce the radical wing of the party."

After ruminating about this some more, the flaw that I find is that government isn't supposed to be "leading us somewhere", it is suppposed to represent our wishes. When Republicans, and even Democrats call for the Democratic party to step back and realize they aren't representitive, they aren't holding back progress because of timidity, they are asking the party to do its job.

If the radical wing of the Democratic party feels that they represent the ordinary American, they most certainly ARE irrational. Thankfully, they are seen for it and people tend NOT to trust irrational people to lead them. When they do, you end up with gulags and concentration camps.

If that is timidity, I'm all for it. Sometimes I actually value the baby more than the bath water.

The right have hijacked the center and moved it right.

That is an Oxy-Moron. If they hijacked it, it means they moved to the center and the left did not. The center is not a thing, it is the balance between the 2 extremes. No one moved it, the left just moved farther to the left leaving the rational to fill the center.

Proof in this is easy to see. Compare the policies and views of JFK circa 1960 to those of his dipsy brother circa 2004. Then you tell me who hijacked who.

The only thing hijacked is the democrats, by the loony fringe.

If you were to be correct, then the radical right would control the Republicans instead of being used by them

be careful with a fool, cuz someday he might get smart...
---bb king

You won't hear me make any sort of defense for "Democrats." Democrats annoy me. Democrats can have their pro-life Senate leader and ride his obstructionist vision til cows give nothing but cream. Screw them. There are very few believable progressive voices in the party.

We came far in the 20th century, but here at the beginning of the 21st we're wanting to give a lot of it up. That's what I mean by a hijack of center. We're no more liberal than we ever were (read a bit about Emma Goldman if you will).